This is one of the most concise, simplest and most easily to understand explanations that I have ever come across Thank You !

I am developing a series of classes to offer the general public on gold in the Phoenix, Arizona USA area, and perhaps beyond. I am Grateful to have discovered your article nearly 2 years after it’s publication and respectfully request permission to reference it. It reflects the ever present truth of the subject. Again ,Thank You !

SB

Some pain would necessarily ensue for a huge number of people, but certainly less than that of a total and sudden collapse of the economy. An orderly conversion process is needed to an objective monetary system, but without full brute force.

Force of a ‘passive’ kind would be needed to ensure the new money, gold does get adopted and the counterfeit credit system is retired. The flow must be guaranteed to be one-way, from existing bonds to gold bonds, excluding direct dollar for gold exchange, to ensure Gresham’s law remains in effect.

May you persuade and obtain additional support of established experts!

PN

Nicholas: You may be right and governments may issue gold bonds in bad faith, and then cheat bond holders. Obviously their actions are out of my control. I can only say this. If they wish to remain in power, they have no choice. I rather doubt that they want to go through the torches and pitchforks; they will not survive the collapse into the new Dark Age. One thing I learned in business is that while employees and friends and customers often have the perception that the business owner has lots of choices, most of the time he has none. Once he realizes the situation there is only one thing to do. Governments are now in this position. Get gold circulating again–or else.

GB-Currently: I must say, I am not a fan of diktats and fiat commands. There are too many ill side effects (“unintended consequences” as most people call them). Aside from that, why not allow the conversion to happen voluntarily and gradually? Why not smoothly devalue paper against gold and allow both to circulate in the economy for a while (while the common man has a chance to get a little gold wealth and more importantly gold income)? It will take time for private debtors to work out mechanisms, landlords to work out leases, etc. The slower and more gradual this process, the less unnecessary pain. It will be painful enough to realize the massive capital losses as it is.

JCAS: I will take your items in order.

1) Swaps, derivatives, etc. I think it would be extremely problematic to try to cancel them. Not only is one party’s liability another’s “money” in our perverse system, but many of these positions are hedges against something else (or something else is the hedge against them). If the other side is not also simultaneously cancelled, then the party suddenly ends up naked a position he did not intend! For example, when MF Global went bust, Australia decided to cancel certain positions of MFG clients. Imagine waking up one morning to find one’s hedged long Australian gold miners / short Canadian gold miners position half cancelled. Now one is naked short Canadian gold miners!

2) The question of private debt is a separate question that I did not treat in my paper. I think part of the solution is rolling up into the government debt problem as governments are taking on the debt from the private sector. I think part of it would be that private debtors would need to also issue gold bonds at some point to replace their outstanding paper bonds / debt. Clearly a lot more work and thought needs to go into this.

3) I think the key to any practical proposal is that it has to work for whomever adopts it, even if he goes alone. If it depends on everyone agreeing in advance, then it will never work. If one country adopted gold bonds to pay off its paper debt, then that country would find its economy getting much stronger relative to every other country’s, and it would experience capital inflows. This would be real capital and not so-called “hot money” (hot counterfeit credit). In any case, those countries which don’t adopt this are headed towards a total wipeout.

I sometimes joke that my goal in life is to free humanity from the scourge that is our current money.

Yours is one of the very rare, potentially workable, practical solutions I have come across.

Thank you very much for sharing your insights

Sincerely
Augustin

Couple of points / questions; I have these in the supportive kind of way

What to with derivatives, futures, swaps, etc.? As you mentioned and explained elegantly, derivatives are a big mess. What is your view? Should derivatives be declared legally void, or do you see other – more effective – mechanisms available to de-cumulate / delever all these “unbacked” paper bets?

To add a point on liquidating debt – and I am really curious here – I’ve always liked Luigi Zingales’ “Plan B” (2008). His plan puts forward a step by step plan to deal with excessive mortgage debt and insolvent banks, simultaneously.

Globally, monetary expansion or counterfeit credit as you wish, flowed amongst other, into real estate. After public debt, it has become the biggest collateral market – at least in most countries (the BIS published lots of stats lately on this). Collateral that’s loosing value due to collapse in credit. I think this should be addressed alongside the gold approach you presented. What’s your take on this point of excessive private debt?

In case you have not heard of Zingales’ approach, it’s definitely worth the read. Key-words? Debt-for-equity swaps, possibly followed by a bankruptcy liquidation regime. Interestingly, these debt-for-equity swaps apply to both the asset side of the banks’ balance sheet as well as to their liability side. If the US can clean up its judicial nightmare with MERS, it would work.

What is of interest to me is that I always considered his approach necessary to liquidate “domestic” or “internal” debt. Gold, on the other hand is the means in “first, last and basically only resort” for governments to liquidate their debt (as you made abundantly clear). I do however wonder about the sequence in using gold in light of domestic and “external” debt.

I mean that their is a “domestic” interest in that banks are not really the owners of government bonds, they’re merely holding it, earning a small profit. But by liquidating government debt through the means of revalued gold, banks – and also insurers and all types of funds – are injected with gold. But in all essence, it would basically recapitalize the actual owners of bank’s holdings: their creditors. I wonder if there is a point here in the way domestic vis-a-vis external debt are treaded?

I know that possibility and probability are not one and the same – though of course I hope for the best – but let’s assume for the sake of our inquisitive minds that some countries or blocs will pursue this approach and some actively not, and possibly resist.

Where’s the incentive for governments to coordinate so that they can help out each other and arrange for gold to flow internationally? If not all countries or an important bloc does want to join “the gold party”, how would this play out?

To me, this has been and is one if not the key issue behind the scenes right now.

Again, thx for this great read!!

kind regards,
JCAS

The practical problem is how to convert the current paper (fiat money) bonds of a nation especially those bonds of the USA into gold bonds, i.e what is the mechanism to convert as the process of conversion will likely to cause a run of the bonds (when everyone realises that fiat bonds are being converted by everyone, bond holders will bid at any price to get the gold bonds, and the waterfall effect will come and it may cause a sudden collapse of the fiat bond market.).

One alternative way I proposed is for the governments to announce a total conversion into gold bonds for all existing bonds over night. The governments will have to convince the bond market they have enough gold presently and in future. For it to be convincing and workable, gold will need to be valued at USD 100,000+ per oz. or whatever the maths works out to be, basing on the total outstanding bonds of the USA and the existing gold hoarding and bond issuers’ future gold income cash flow. The problem with this approach is that when gold bond exchange rate is announced to be USD 100k per oz, the market price of gold will follow immediately, there will be USD 53 trillion of USD exiting the market and the owners will seek to convert the money into real physical assets such as commodity, land, real estate etc. Hence there is a gigantic devaluation of USD immediately this consequence will need to be taken care of.

I am still digesting Keith fascinating proposal and must give credit to Professor Fekete (for the gold bond idea )and Keith Weiner for the mechanism of conversion. On the first read of that fantastic piece, I still do not see how to prevent the waterfall effect or a sudden run on bonds. I definitely will read it carefully again.

There can never be enough gold or too little.

Firstly, this is not, and never was, a discussion about whether there is more than 170,000 tonnes of gold in the world. I have shown beyond the shadow of a possibility of doubt that there is. The math on this is below. Maybe it would have helped if I had done this in the article but at the time I did assume this would be done by the readers. Most did, a few did not.

Pertinent facts:

1 As we now have 170,000 official tonnes and as it is claimed that only 10,000 tonnes was mined prior to 1859 then we can work off the figure of 160,000 tonnes as being the true figure for the amount of gold mined since 1859. It should be borne in mind that even these recent official figures are incorrect, but to what degree is unknowable. Large amounts of gold have come out of PNG, Africa and parts of Asia during this period that are not recorded anywhere. I will stick with the official figure…
160,000 160,000

2 Vatican gold ownership is claimed (by the Vatican: http://www.mayomo.com/92459-lord-james-of-blackheath-speech-on-foundation-x-house-of-lords-01-11-2010-original-video) at 140,000 tonnes. I can find no evidence that any of this has been gained since 1859, indeed such sparse info as there is suggests that the Vatican has sold some of their gold in this period, not added to it.
140,000 300,000

3 If the Vatican were able to accumulate 140,000 tonnes, then we can assume that India was also able to accumulate a similar amount of gold – at the absolute minimum! The Indian civilization goes back thousands of years before the Catholic Church even came into existence and has been acquiring and accumulating gold for the entire period up to the present day. It was the refusal of the Indians to accept the Roman adulterated gold coin that began the decline of the Roman Empire. The Vatican gold is not Indian gold. Gold has not left India in any quantities ever. They are different lots of gold. An actual study of the Indian numbers shows FAR more gold than this. Indians knowledgeable in gold scoff at the lowness of this figure. But again, for the sake of conservatism…
140,000 440,000

So, without factoring in Egyptian (possible double-counting) and Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Javanese, Indonesian, Thai, Laotian, Burmese and Philippine gold we are up to 440,000 tonnes.

Then, on top of extrapolating a figure for the above paragraph, I looked at the everyday placer activity – even now – and began to extrapolate even further. That was an error as it was the weak point in the presentation that could not be substantiated. It invited in those who can only think in terms of official figures – no matter how implausible. I should have left it at the very conservatively known 440,000 tonnes.

Because of the obviousness of the above I cannot indulge any more comments from people trying to prove that we still only have 170,000 tonnes of gold in the world. That is for another forum for those interested in fantasy. Out of politeness I have felt obliged to respond, but my courtesy has worn thin with people who are not genuinely contributing to the discussion.

The real questions relate to how much gold is in the Russian, Chinese and Asian area (excluding India). Yes, I was purely speculating here by including info on Yamashita’ gold etc. We don’t know how much gold there is in Asia and I would be really happy to hear from someone who has a better way of estimating the amount.

To make myself clear – I have faithfully put up every post so far, but no more. The contributions have to be ‘on-track’ with reality… going forwards not backwards. This began as a serious question/discussion and will be maintained as such in the future.

6.5 tons a year for 250 years = 1625 tons!

Mines do not last forever…. Wait, now I’m repeating myself. It would help if somebody was listening….

It seems to me you’re only interested in accepting the data that fits your thesis. Fine with me and good luck with that:) For the record, I’m not trying to convince you, Philip, but you DO have a responsibility to your readers. You are free to believe what you like.

I would encourage anyone truly interested, to research Las Medulas, you’ll get a reality-based idea of how much gold the Romans mined in northern Spain. Not some fantasy. I tried to explain, and so did Nick, how ore grades do not stay constant. It’s all out there, and it’s science, not ‘opinions’ as someone here has stated.

So, Phil, I’m done here. I can see why Nick left as well… and so can all of the people who might stumble onto your site.

To be entirely fair, I also ‘vigourously’ defended the status quo with regard to the amount of gold in the world for many decades, and was also guilty of rubbishing reports of far larger quantities. My advanced years have afforded me the pleasure of a few mea culpas )

One of the more recent contributions accused me of promoting the idea of there being more gold because of my desire to see the reinstatement of the Gold Standard. I assume that this refers to the hoary old myth (no shortage of those) that there is not enough gold in the world to return to a Gold Standard. The whole British Empire, which at its peak accounted for between 40% to 60% of world trade (depending on whose figures you accept), ran on between 150 and 200 tonnes of gold. The world officially now has 1000 times that amount. There is plenty of gold; the fact that much of it is hidden away relates directly to a distrust of governments, not to any shortage.

It is well known that Spain was [one of] the highest gold producing area in ancient times.

It is well known that Spain was the highest gold producing area in ancient times. It is also known and MEASURED, a total of 1400 tons TOTAL were shipped to Rome from this location.

“Spain, a major producing centre in Roman times shipped 1400 tons of gold to Rome. This amount is based on the quantity of slag left over in Spanish production centres and the assumption that 3 grammes of gold were extracted from one ton of ore”

Easily verified through geology and simple math….

See, these things can be measured by what’s left over after mining ore. This is science, not conjecture.

Again, these mines were mining high-grade ore bodies ONLY. There had to be visible gold or they were unable to process the ore. Ask a Geologist(I have one on my team) how much visible gold(high-grade ore) occurs in relation to low-grade in the total estimate of gold ppm contained in the earth’s crust. Further,The ancients had to see the vein and then follow it. We now have the technology to “peek” below many feet of regular old rock to see what lies below. The ancients did not, and therefore had no idea of many of the large deposits that have been found recently.

When I said, 250 000 tons, I was being very, very generous for the sake of argument. It took 60 000 workers, 250 years to mine…let’s say… 1550 tons from one of the richest known mine sites in the ancient world. Mines do not produce steady output, the gold doesn’t magically appear. It is mined and eventually there is none left to mine. 250 years is a nice life span for a mine by today’s standards…

Devin

Hushing

The Roman Empire was the first to use an early version of hydraulic mining in the recovery of gold known as “hushing.” Hushing involved using big tanks of water built and set up on a hilltop to flush an area with a large concentration of water in order to reveal veins of ore. The method was mostly effective on steep slopes to produce a maximum force of water and was deplored in conjunction with another technique called fire-setting. Used in open-pit mines, fire-setting involved heating up the rock with fire and then dousing it with water. The drastic change in temperature caused the rock to fracture.[2] The Romans were ingenious in the mining of gold and developed sluices and an early version of the Long Tom. They even mined underground and introduced waterwheels to mining.[3] The principle of hushing was then modified and it evolved into hydraulic mining, using narrow hoses and pipes to generate high-pressure jets of water powerful enough to clear away entire hillsides.

In order to come up with this MILLION or more tons of gold you speak of, there would be some really big holes in the ground. Where are they? Show me.

I realize that you’re looking for “extra gold” in order to go back on a gold standard. I also realize you mean well, but you have no proof to back up these multi-million ton claims. I could easily see the actual number at maybe 250 thousand tons, but there would’ve had to have been some very rich placer ground that geologists have overlooked. It’s possible, but unlikely. Remember that even the richest modern placers come nowhere near the numbers required for the math to work. Where then did all these million of tons of gold come from?

If the Romans really did hydraulic mine to that extent, there would be evidence still to this day. This is the kind of stuff geologists can ascertain upon inspection, it’s much different than natural erosion. I would love to see the proof. Same with hard rock mining… there would be massive numbers of old mines underground and we would’ve found them by now, I would think. Visible gold in quartz is not common! You do realize this, right? Are you gonna tell me the ancients had smelters and the equipment to process low-grade ore? Where are the mine shafts in the numbers required to produce millions of tons???? I don’t think so. I could go on, but I digress.

As far as FOFOA goes; he’s probably the top expert in the world on the subject of gold’s utility in monetary systems. I assure you he knows very well how a gold standard works, which is exactly why you need to familiarize yourself with his work. I sincerely mean it. We(gold standard and freegold advocates) are on the same side! We need to get you guys up to speed so we can move forward.

Try this link and then go from there:)

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1YKVMTJpGApL33bdIBXc-DxiNyOV4QA_DzOYeoxkDA_g&pli=1

Devin

I found your site while looking for info on gold production in ancient times. While your estimates are incredibly high, your analysis was helpful in contrast to the points Nick made, to help me see the whole picture. I do, however, find Nick’s analysis to be much more accurate and logical. It’s simply a mistake to assume ancient man mined the amount of gold to add up to the numbers you came up with.

I’m a placer gold miner, among other things. Some of the richest producing creeks in history were in the Yukon. An estimated 20’000 men worked the creeks(many more than that to supply the miners) during the Yukon rush and an estimate of maybe 600 tons of gold mined in a few years. Even if it was really 1000 tons, as findings were often under reported, it’s still a small amount of gold compared to the numbers you’re talking about. 1000 tons from some of the richest ground known on earth! This is only one example. Yes, these areas are mined to this day, but the returns are nowhere near what they had in the first few years. This is a VERY important fact that I think you’ve overlooked.

Have you ever seen the way the landscape is altered when high-production placer methods are used? Can you show me evidence of this on creeks/rivers in the areas known to be inhabited by early man? I’m afraid it will be tough to prove up your million tons worth, though I would enjoy you proving me wrong on that:) This was early man, using stone and copper tools. They had insufficient technology to alter the landscape to this degree in search of gold. Our technology, in the form of large machinery has the ability to replace thousands of men using hand methods of mining, and it makes massive changes to the landscape.

Another important note to remember is that not every creek in a known gold zone will carry large amounts of gold. Often it will only be a very small area(geographically speaking) that will hold gold in amounts large enough to warrant mining of any kind. The areas that the ancients inhabited are not known to be worthwhile placer locations compared to the areas where we’ve had “modern” gold rushes.

Even with modern technology we don’t ever get all of the gold in a placer deposit. Why haven’t the areas you assume were placer mined to a massive degree in antiquity, being mined today? Because they don’t hold enough gold to warrant mining… This is obvious, or guys like me woulda been all over them long ago. I know miners that have gone over ground here in Canada that has been mined at three different times in the last 100 or so years, and they found enough gold to make it worth their while. They’re using machinery and technology, not a piece of sheep or a crude excuse for a sluice:) You must take note that fine gold(dust) is incredibly hard to capture compared to chunky gold. Still today, with our technology, some of the fine gold blows right through with the rocks and water.

Thanks for the article, and I apologize if I come across a little harsh. Many thanks to Nick for grounding this conversation and applying sound logic and research.

PS… Why do you waste such valuable time on this “gold standard” stuff? It’s none of my business really, but it had to be said. I mean it with respect. If you’re up for a challenge, read through everything FOFOA has to say. I promise you will walk away with a new set of tools you can put to good use:)

Devin- The other DDT.

Who hasn’t forgotten all about this one – now don’t fib, and tell us you had been thinking about this shocker every day for two years! Divine Cosmos has done a commendable job in its restructuring for resurrecting before us again. Will we get justice this time around? Only YOU can Prevent Government Coverups!
http://chasvoice.blogspot.com/2011/12/confirmed-trillion-dollar-lawsuit-that.html

But I think it is too trusting to believe that _none_ of the people responsible for bad decisions were unaware of

  · What was going on, and that collapse of the European Monetary Union was a part of a plan

· The contribution of massive corruption, paid-off regulators and legislators, imprudent leveraging, and reporting (“window dressing”) designed to deceive those with a right to know

· The temptation to use unethical means to outperform, by taking on highly risky positions (that at the time somehow didn’t seem all that imprudent)

I also think it too trusting that a person who is obviously willing to sacrifice truth to promote a dishonest agenda will somehow welcome someone who tries to show him the inconsistencies in his words and deeds — i.e., will be willing to acknowledge the logical superiority of Austrian economics. The attitude of “if I present the facts cogently, he will have to agree with me” is referred to as “presuppositionalism” or “evidentialism.” You can win debates in school this way, but I think it best to recall that “man is not a _rational_ animal, but a _rationalizing_ animal.”

It has been suggested by many alternative media commentators that a significant fraction of the people with the most money don’t share the same values as those of us steeped in a (now vanishing) Judeo-Christian culture. The fraction of mult-billionaires who are willing to engage in illicit activity to promote their own agenda is probably about the same as that of garden-variety folks who become cat burglars or embezzlers. But there is an immense difference in the social consequences of the crimes committed by these dishonest globalist aristocrats who are able to act with impunity.

Keynsians are heavily represented among economists because they’re the ones doing the teaching, and simply because they find it easier to get a job. Those who pay their salaries may assign a value to what they say that may have more to do with the utility than the truthfulness or soundness of their pronouncements. Keynes himself was quite contemptuous of proletarian values (including a love of the truth — see 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 — absence of which leads to “a strong delusion”), and enjoyed the company of many like-minded men. But ultimately, it comes down not to competing economic theories battling it out in the marketplace of ideas, but rather, _cui bono_?

I read recently that there are 1210 billionaires in the world. Some, like Bill Gates, have attained that rarified status by their own ingenuity; others, like Prince Charles and David Rockefeller, have been born into it. The billionaire globalists — “citizens of the world” — in such non-governmental organizations as the Ford Foundation, the Club of Rome, and the Council on Foreign Relations, intend to use their wealth to promote a “one-world” society without national boundaries.

In their imagined world there will be no warfare. But if you don’t like their “global governance,” or seek redress of a grievance, tough. You can’t vote them out of office, you won’t be allowed to own weapons, and there will be no way to escape their all-seeing eyes. There are enough aristocrats with enough wealth, and enough prostitutes who are willing to get with the program, who will use whatever means it takes to achieve the specified ends.

What are the concerns of people who have far more wealth than they will ever be able to spend? If they are devious, they can retain virtual invisibility yet buy the allegiance of judges, presidents, legislators, and regulators, thereby making it possible to remove any semblance of transparency or lawful business practices. They can buy allegiance of the “academic elite” and the “journalist elite” to the agenda by appealing to their pride and making them believe that they will be a part of the coming aristocracy.
They can pay (propagandized) Occupiers who

· Will direct their hostility to “Wall Street” and not the anonymous owners of the Federal Reserve Bank

· Don’t understand the moral hazard inherent in fiat currency
Have no clue about the meanings of expressions like “debt and credit,” “End the Fed,” “crony capitalism,” “money,” and “gold standard.”

· Remain unaware of, or untroubled by, the inconsistency of claiming that there is no such thing as “moral truth,” yet trying to use threats to impose the moral truths they accept upon others
Have been indoctrinated, rather than trained, in economics and economic history

· Are too inexperienced to be able to see the big picture and formulate the right questions

· Don’t understand that more government control doesn’t solve anything.

Many global aristocrats have gone on record as wanting to reduce the world’s population. Some of these not only want to reduce it by one-half or ninety-five percent, but to that end covertly promote

· “Deindustializing” and reducing other people’s standards of living to a “sustainable” level

· Using impoverishment, war, disease epidemics, and famine as tools

· In populations of some developing nations

· Introducing new pathogens

· Preventing the use of DDT that would have saved millions of lives lost to malaria

· Using a deceptive innoculation to induce the inability of young women to carry a pregnancy to delivery

What is most important to some of these aristocrats is replacing notions of human freedom with ignorance and subservience. Such evil people are certainly not going to be open (at least not yet) about who they are or what their true agenda is.

Doesn’t it seem likely that the Rothschilds and others of “old wealth,” those who own the central banks all over the world, know full well the monetary value of gold, but certainly don’t want ordinary people to know it? Regardless of what high-visibility Keynesians say, these unseen aristocrats are fully aware of Gresham’s law — promoting fiat currencies for commerce, while retaining gold as the store of their own wealth. Publicly they may disparage gold and even manipulate its market price, but privately they collect it, to establish their power once the fiat money systems fails.

One very rich person with a lot of gold — $200 billion worth — was Ghadaffi. But Ghadaffi was not one of them. His sin, which led to the invocation of the (newly discovered) “responsibility to protect” and NATO violent regime change, was not the way he treated ordinary citizens but his intention to

· Demand payment for oil in gold, and

· Set up a banking system not based on debt created in a central bank.

Andrew Jackson’s famous last words were “I killed the [central] bank.”

Secretive aristocrats have a vested interest in keeping the rest of us chained in Plato’s cave, and in exterminating those who stumble out — lest we re-enter to tell the other prisoners. They minimize the risk of being discovered by distracting ordinary people with “bread and circuses” (e.g., mindless TV shows and pitting Democrats against Republicans).

They promote the notion that what central banks do is much too arcane for ordinary people (i.e., those not admitted to the priesthood) to comprehend. But it really doesn’t take long to learn that the purposes of a (privately owned) central bank are to

· Create money (and debt) out of nothing, then

· Get the government to borrow it

Central banks are set up to privatize profits and socialize debts.
In my out-of-the-cave analysis, it was all part of the “directed history” plan for Goldman-Sachs trained economists and advisors to assist unqualified countries to hide their true financial condition so that they would be admitted into the European Monetary Union. So were Goldman’s recent bloodless coups in Greece and Italy — to say nothing of the European Central Bank. Here’s the plan:

1 Create an attractive and apparently benign European Monetary Union (Mark I), enabling member nations to act imprudently and apparently without consequence (the bait)

2 Let the system collapse from corruption, internal lack of self-discipline, and unlimited leveraging (using “risk-free” derivatives)

3 When the EMU’s designed-in flaws result in a belated awareness that the problems (i.e., those that the central banks had designed in) are systemic for all the king’s horses and all the king’s men to salvage, wait until the commoners are not only frightened, but so desperate to achieve monetary stability that they will relinquish their national sovereignty

4 After the poor bastards are begging to get in, give them a take-it-or-leave-it opportunity to become a part of a new European Union (Mark II) — with a centralized budgetary and taxing authority.

Doubtless the Mark II plan has long since been prepared, but could never have been sold to the EU menmber states without their first having bought in to the Mark I version. (Because he was hungry, Esau sold his birthright for a single meal.)

After experiencing first hand the chaos brought by the previous, more attractive, less authoritarian, less dictatorial union, the leaders (if not the citizens) of a number of European states will become eager to join a smaller-but-tougher EU, with rules set by Germany.

This new entity seems likely to become a Fourth Reich. It may become the biblically prophecied 10-nation final embodiment of the Holy Roman Empire.

Ha, Ha. They don’t understand that nothing will satisfy the demand for money, because the demand for money is infinite.

I bet the Elders of Zion DO understand that!

Darcy Neal Donnelly
Libertarian Candidate
Stormont – Dundas – South Glengarry

Mr. Antal E. Fekete you have done our world civilizations a great service and on behalf of the people of our world; We thank you and truly appreciate your gift of knowledge and wisdom. May peace, honor, liberty and abundance always be with you.

Neal
Darcy Neal Donnelly

I joined the Libertarian Party, Ontario & Canada as an active member. I ran as a candidate for both the federal and provincial elections. I am trying to create an awareness. That is all I can do.

I am a truck driver hauling knowledge from the past and delivering to the future.

Yes, the gold standard is the answer. Money and prices stated in weight of gold. private mints. No central banks, etc.

See my book ‘Monetary Revolution USA’ on Amazon.com, and text at parts 1 and 2 in the left margin of my Forward-USA.org site.

Regards, Dave MadisonEcon.org

Both lists include only GLD, but would think that some is older than 5 years, and so that is old GLD. I believe the LBMA and non-LBMA refinery capacity of the world is not large enough to recyle all the old GLD into new GLD bullion?

And if this is so, there is definitely not enough capacity to resmelt all 2.5 million MT?

Is there a public listing that includes all bullion? Am sure that there is not. Even putting together multiple lists do not?

Published lists reflect only a small subset of reality. If this is so, why are there groups of people that entertain using the Gold Standard, when listings do not show enough gold to cover any large GNP of a country? Even 2.5 mil MT probably would not cover very many countries. And so the Gold Standard is somewhat of myth as there is not enough gold to support it? Especially if the total stock is “170,000 MTs”.

Any thoughts would be great…

Somewhere between 1,200,000 tonnes and 2,500,000 tonnes would seem to be a reasonable and conservative estimate. Obviously it could go way beyond 2,500,000 tonnes. What is beyond doubt is that 170,000 tonnes barely represents the tip of the iceberg of the world’s gold stock. Let us be rid of this figure once and for all. It is a folly to keep repeating an obvious error as though it were fact.

Is it probable that we know what part(s) or countries of the world the majority of this stock is located in? Probably not, but thought I would pose the question. The official list per the IMF shows 30,562 MT of GLD held by about 111 countries. This list does not reflect the total world stock of course.

This blog does not notify users when there is a new posting.
Thnx

Does this sentence still hold do you think?

Somewhere between 1,200,000 tonnes and 2,500,000 tonnes would seem to be a reasonable and conservative estimate. Obviously it could go way beyond 2,500,000 tonnes. What is beyond doubt is that 170,000 tonnes barely represents the tip of the iceberg of the world’s gold stock. Let us be rid of this figure once and for all. It is a folly to keep repeating an obvious error as though it were fact.

The subject of Au numbers is always sensitive throughout history and so they will never really be known.

It was mentioned that:

Paul, a correction, I should have said that western records are fairly precise since Roman times. There are no records at all related to Mesoamerican or Asian gold pre the 20th century – that I have ever come across. Philip

It can then be said that Western records and Asian records 20th century and post 20th century are available and maybe somewhat reliable? Does this include only mining production numbers and not gold stock numbers?

To me these numbers seem to be vague, as entities are hesitant to say. Yes I have noticed there are reference books you can buy for hundreds of $, but I wonder if they are only “publically published numbers”? GLD numbers do not tell us much about the overall picture. Actuals are never around.

The trade off seems to be between a) very old historical records that are in contention to some degree, b) unknown Asian records pre 20th Century, and c) what was indicated 65 yrs ago and then subsequently and carefully documented. Is not the data from c) a much more robust and reliable dataset compared to a) and b)? Therefore why not place more emphasis on c)?

Why not then scrub the recent robust numbers best we can and then use those to piece together the past? A tolerance sensitivity analysis could be applied, however I would not have the time or historical expertise to perform.